Lets talk smoke...

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Gencom
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Lets talk smoke...

Postby Gencom » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:08 pm

First let me say, im in Houston texas and I love my BBQ. I started this hobby a few years ago, However nothing I have turned out to date has matched the flavor profile i get from GOOD bbq joints..

When i started reading on smoking meats, its clear most everyone preaches low and slow with thin blue smoke... I've mastered thin blue, and still have yet to achieve that smokey greatness i'm after.

I have a WSM it produces good Q but its not that texas flavor im looking for.
I have a Pit Barrel cooker.... Same as the WSM not the flavor profile im after.

I have a Vertical wood Burner that i feed Post oak to and its pretty close, but far away still...

My thing is most BBQ places i go to i nearly always see smoke, and its not thin blue, Am i just not introducing enough smoke, do i need to dampen down some... im going wild trying to find this holy grail.

Im going reverse flow next... Any input here... maybe in texas we just go heavier on smoke than other areas..??? :dont:
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Txdragon » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:15 pm

First, lemme welcome you to the site! Second, lemme smack your hand (so to speak).. Stop trying to replicate everybody else!! Make it yours, not somebody else's.. Also..

Your smoke should compliment the meat, not be the star. Heavier smoke flavor DOES NOT mean good bbq..
That being said..

Try different wood. Mesquite is potent stuff compared to post oak. Pecan is nice, hickory is heavier than pecan.. Fruit woods are good as well. Mix it up!
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby aking6341 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:15 pm

Post an example of your procedures. Next time you bbq post pics here and it will help the forum help you out. Are you using wood only and is it seasoned?
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Gencom » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:21 pm

lol now i never said i didn't make good BBQ its just not that yeti i'm hunting..

Yes i use just wood splits now, i rarely use the WSM, seasoned wood..

I usually start with a bed of charcoal and toss on about 2-3 splits to get to 250, then i add a split a hour or so. I have both dampers open on the exhaust stack, they are about 4" round a piece, maybe 5". I can't achieve that dark color either, i believe it may be exhausting to fast maybe??
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Txdragon » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:31 pm

Gencom wrote:lol now i never said i didn't make good BBQ its just not that yeti i'm hunting..

Yes i use just wood splits now, i rarely use the WSM, seasoned wood..

I usually start with a bed of charcoal and toss on about 2-3 splits to get to 250, then i add a split a hour or so. I have both dampers open on the exhaust stack, they are about 4" round a piece, maybe 5". I can't achieve that dark color either, i believe it may be exhausting to fast maybe??

Looking for that nice dark bark? Like this? I tried a lot of ideas then the simplest one ever.. More black pepper. I used a medium grind. It was in a large bottle labeled "Restaurant style black pepper". I used a generous amount; I almost wanted to rinse some off for fear of it being too much but, nope. And bam. Bark that made angels sing. I ran it a tad hotter too; 280° from my usual 250. Who'd have thought 30 would make such a difference? Lol
20170708_155336.jpg
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby OldUsedParts » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

I'm not a stick burner but I did want to say that different woods give different results and you might be tasting another wood's smoke at the Joints and not Post Oak just saying :dont:
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby aking6341 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:51 pm

Txdragon wrote:
Gencom wrote:lol now i never said i didn't make good BBQ its just not that yeti i'm hunting..

Yes i use just wood splits now, i rarely use the WSM, seasoned wood..

I usually start with a bed of charcoal and toss on about 2-3 splits to get to 250, then i add a split a hour or so. I have both dampers open on the exhaust stack, they are about 4" round a piece, maybe 5". I can't achieve that dark color either, i believe it may be exhausting to fast maybe??

Looking for that nice dark bark? Like this? I tried a lot of ideas then the simplest one ever.. More black pepper. I used a medium grind. It was in a large bottle labeled "Restaurant style black pepper". I used a generous amount; I almost wanted to rinse some off for fear of it being too much but, nope. And bam. Bark that made angels sing. I ran it a tad hotter too; 280° from my usual 250. Who'd have thought 30 would make such a difference? Lol
IMG_1117.JPG


Great advice above. The key to achieving bark like the picture above is coarse pepper and patience. I often mix half coarse pepper with extremely coarse pepper like the picture above.
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby k.a.m. » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:52 pm

The reverse flow is not your answer.
We know how you run the cooker now give us the low down on cooking a brisket.
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.



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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Gencom » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:32 pm

k.a.m. wrote:The reverse flow is not your answer.
We know how you run the cooker now give us the low down on cooking a brisket.

KAM do you not care for reverses or ?? Something i need to know or ??

lol well that purchase is inline to be built so no turning back there..

Briskets, i buy, bring home keep in the fridge overnight to get that fat hard and i trim off the part that never renders.
then i flip it over and take a small layer off the fat cap.
I use mustard as a slather, then which ever rub im trying at the time... i liberally apply. Flip and repeat. I cook fat side down in my vertical since the heat is coming from the bottom. I cook at 250 untill it stalls, then wrap in brown paper for the rest of the cook.

I can say I dont really spritz every 45 minutes or anything like that, some say it just washes the rub off.
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby texasbred » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:01 am

Gencom wrote:
k.a.m. wrote:The reverse flow is not your answer.
We know how you run the cooker now give us the low down on cooking a brisket.

KAM do you not care for reverses or ?? Something i need to know or ??

lol well that purchase is inline to be built so no turning back there..

Briskets, i buy, bring home keep in the fridge overnight to get that fat hard and i trim off the part that never renders.
then i flip it over and take a small layer off the fat cap.
I use mustard as a slather, then which ever rub im trying at the time... i liberally apply. Flip and repeat. I cook fat side down in my vertical since the heat is coming from the bottom. I cook at 250 untill it stalls, then wrap in brown paper for the rest of the cook.

I can say I dont really spritz every 45 minutes or anything like that, some say it just washes the rub off.


Personally I get a better bark when I spray it down every once in a while. But I don't start doing that until after a few hours and the rub has started to set up. Have you tried without the mustard? I know there is a big debate about it, I don't use it but many do. However I don't think that many BBQ places are using it on their briskets.
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Gencom » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:11 am

so dry no slather... i'll have to try it..

for wood, ive used everything , last batch was post oak and red oak.... might try live oak next, i asked a guy that owns a small place he just said he used oak lol... anyway, id say im about 75% there need to refine and dial in a few things...

Ribs... ive tried it all from johnny trigs to my own rub, im just not a fan of super sweet ribs, just don't think thats that flavor im after.... mind you im a tad ocd if you cant tell
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby texasbred » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:37 am

I'm like that with my rubs, I've been experimenting with them lately and when they don't come out like I want then I'm not happy with the overall cook. I think I've got my brisket down by simplifying it.

As for the mustard, when I was a teen and comp cooking with my dad he was totally against mustard. His theory was that the flavor was too strong for the beef and a simple salt/pepper/garlic rub. Also he heard "somewhere" that the mustard impeded the smoke penetration. He didn't actually believe that but it was a thing with us :laughing7:

I don't care for super sweet pork ribs either, a little sweet and a good kick in the mouth heat. :D

For smoke, my offset kind of goes in and out with smoke, it'll breathe a good amount of thin blue smoke for a while. Then when the fire gets just right I can't even see smoke coming from the stack.
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby k.a.m. » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:58 am

Gencom wrote:
k.a.m. wrote:The reverse flow is not your answer.
We know how you run the cooker now give us the low down on cooking a brisket.

KAM do you not care for reverses or ?? Something i need to know or ??

lol well that purchase is inline to be built so no turning back there..

Briskets, i buy, bring home keep in the fridge overnight to get that fat hard and i trim off the part that never renders.
then i flip it over and take a small layer off the fat cap.
I use mustard as a slather, then which ever rub im trying at the time... i liberally apply. Flip and repeat. I cook fat side down in my vertical since the heat is coming from the bottom. I cook at 250 untill it stalls, then wrap in brown paper for the rest of the cook.

I can say I dont really spritz every 45 minutes or anything like that, some say it just washes the rub off.

I have nothing against reverse flow cookers but in my opinion changing cookers wont get you what you want. In my opinion you pretty much answered most of your problem when you say you mustard slather. Try a basic 50/50 kosher salt and coarse black pepper rub applied while the cooker is coming up to temp. Bump your temps to 275°/300° and wrap at around 170°then finish. Rubs with sugars alter the meat flavor same with too much chili powder or cumin. You are wanting basic smoked beef so quit hiding it with all the other stuff.
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.



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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Txdragon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:21 am

k.a.m. wrote:I have nothing against reverse flow cookers but in my opinion changing cookers wont get you what you want. In my opinion you pretty much answered most of your problem when you say you mustard slather. Try a basic 50/50 kosher salt and coarse black pepper rub applied while the cooker is coming up to temp. Bump your temps to 275°/300° and wrap at around 170°then finish. Rubs with sugars alter the meat flavor same with too much chili powder or cumin. You are wanting basic smoked beef so quit hiding it with all the other stuff.

I highlighted what should be a passage in the 10 commandments of BBQ.
"Thou shalt not expect change in results only by changing thy cooker."
Your method should produce the same results with any cooker you use. Much like the laws of physics, the laws that govern bbq are static and never change (kinda actually counts as physics anyways!) These are heat, and fire control. Master this, and you've solved more than half your problem. This goes for any cooker you can fit a brisket and a fire into. I believe it was K.A.M. I got my winning bark advice from that produced the brisket I posted the shot of up above.
I'm also wondering what places you were referring to when you mentioned good bbq. Given your location, I have an eerie feeling I know the answer, but please tell us!
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Re: Lets talk smoke...

Postby Chasdev » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:16 am

I follow the Franklin method..kosher salt and coarse ground black pepper at 275 (or as close as I can get to 275 measured at the cook grate level) with a water pan and with both the intake and exhaust wide open, which means controlling the temp with the size and amount of fuel added (or not added).
Don't open the lid for 3 hours and then spray with 50/50 apple cider vinegar and apple juice every hour thereafter.
I've wrapped and not wrapped and frankly don't see all that much difference..but I do like more smoke flavor than some folks.
I played around with different types of oak and there is a difference in flavor profiles, my favorite is fully seasoned post oak which is next to impossible to find.
LOTS of guys claiming to sell it but none can back up their claims, at least in Austin.

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